Career Challenges: The Impact of Non-Compete Agreements | EP 11
Welcome to the Veritas Vantage Podcast!
In today’s episode, your hosts Brian Hastings and Justin Maines discuss the complexities and strategic considerations surrounding non-compete agreements in the logistics industry. The speakers, Brian and Justin, share personal experiences and insights on how non-compete clauses can impact career moves and the importance of understanding such agreements before signing. They highlight the need for asking questions, consulting legal advice, and the impact of 'golden handcuffs' on career satisfaction.
Get ready for discussions on Logistics and Leadership!
The Logistics & Leadership Podcast, powered by Veritas Logistics, redefines logistics and personal growth. Hosted by industry veterans and supply chain leaders Brian Hastings and Justin Maines, it shares their journey from humble beginnings to a $50 million company. Discover invaluable lessons in logistics, mental toughness, and embracing the entrepreneurial spirit. The show delves into personal and professional development, routine, and the power of betting on oneself. From inspiring stories to practical insights, this podcast is a must for aspiring entrepreneurs, logistics professionals, and anyone seeking to push limits and achieve success.
Timestamps:
(02:22) - The Golden Handcuffs: Staying for the Money
(03:23) - The Employer's Accountability and Culture Building
(05:11) - Navigating the Mental Challenges of Non-Competes
(09:45) - Planning Your Exit Strategy: Advice and Insights
(13:49) - Networking and Preparing for the Future
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Transcript
You're thinking about entering the logistics industry.
Speaker A:There's something that we absolutely have to talk about, the non compete.
Speaker A:Brian, tell me what your thoughts are about the non compete.
Speaker B:Well, first off, the non compete is an agreement usually set forth by the employer.
Speaker B:It prevents you, if you start with that company, it prevents you from working at a competitor or working against them in some fashion.
Speaker B:Usually These agreements are 6 months, 12 months, 2 years.
Speaker B:It just depends on that type of agreement.
Speaker A:So I'm assuming that you had one at some point.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, yeah.
Speaker B:So I think, you know, with our non compete it's one of those things that it's tricky, right.
Speaker B:You sign it on day one, you know, with the employer and you don't really know what you're signing at the time.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But one thing that we want to share with the audience is the fact that you have to ask questions.
Speaker B:You have to make sure that you're reading through it or getting somebody else to take a look at it, maybe an attorney, maybe somebody with legal counsel.
Speaker B:A lot of times in those agreements, even down the road, after a couple years of working for the company, it's taboo to go and ask about it.
Speaker B:So if you do ask about it, it automatically raises red flags and you might get a meeting with upper management or whatever that looks like.
Speaker B:The best thing I can say is on that front end, you have to ask questions.
Speaker A:Completely agree.
Speaker A:That's just something that for our listeners.
Speaker A:If you've listened to previous episodes, you're well aware that Brian and I spent a number of years at tql.
Speaker A:Great company, second largest in the industry.
Speaker A:But there's a bit of a white elephant that goes undiscussed when joining a company like tql.
Speaker A:The thing is, it's a hot topic today.
Speaker A:A lot of companies are going away, you know, I know they're, they're going through government trying to abolish all non competes, especially in the logistics industry.
Speaker A:So do your homework.
Speaker A:You know, if this is something that you truly want to pursue, talk to current employees, talk to, you know, past employees, talk to leadership, you know, get some advice and insight into the details of the non compete.
Speaker A:Brian, I want to ask you about something else.
Speaker B:Yeah, what you got?
Speaker A:Have you heard of the golden handcuffs?
Speaker B:A couple times, yeah.
Speaker B:I might have experienced them once or.
Speaker A:Twice, but yeah, tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker B:Yeah, so I think this is.
Speaker B:The golden handcuffs are an area that you get into a company or you get into a situation in work where you might be making a little bit too much money or be Making significant money but you're not really happy, you're not fulfilled.
Speaker B:It's an area that you know, it's, you can't leave your job.
Speaker B:Maybe that for, that's, maybe it's for a non compete, maybe it's for you know, the golden handcuffs specifically refer to the money that you're making.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So if you're making good enough money, you stick it out and you don't leave because you know you might have two kids at home with a wife and a mortgage and two car payments.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So that's something that you know is I think is the number one indicator for all golden handcuffs.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think it makes it difficult as well because you know with non compete you know you're making good money.
Speaker A:But what accountability is there for the employer to then have to you know, make sure they're, they're building a culture where the employees feel invested in, they feel respected, they feel valued because at the end of the day there's non compete.
Speaker A:So how likely is an employee going to be to whether it's one year, two year.
Speaker A:You and I had two year not competes.
Speaker A:Bit of a sore subject but we're past that now.
Speaker A:But there's no real accountability from a culture standpoint or leadership standpoint to make sure that they're continuing to build a culture and invest in their employees so that they feel fulfilled and they want to come into work each day.
Speaker A:What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean do you see that as like they put the non compete on there for like a security blanket, right.
Speaker B:Or what do you think?
Speaker A:Not necessarily because I do think there is some benefit in non compete logistics specifically.
Speaker A:You can't go give an employee, invest in them the training, give them the industry knowledge, the sales training, the data, that stuff is very sensitive and if they're coming into a company they have the transparency into clients load volume.
Speaker A:If you're outside the industry this is just sensitive information on what drives the company.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:If you don't have a non competing place they can just hop ship the next day, start their own company or join a smaller brokerage and go after all those companies.
Speaker A:So like there is benefit in a non compete but on the flip side if you're doing the right things your employees shouldn't want to leave.
Speaker A:So a lot of companies do have a non solicit.
Speaker A:In fact we have non solid solicit just to protect our company.
Speaker A:But we're making sure that we are coming in every single day and making sure our employees are taken care of.
Speaker A:And they feel valued in.
Speaker A:So that they're not looking, they're not entertaining those conversations.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:How do you feel like obviously we had the two year non compete.
Speaker B:Both of us did.
Speaker B:How did you handle the mental side of things?
Speaker B:How did you, you know, you couldn't compete in logistics or Trucking for 24 months, man.
Speaker B:How did you handle that mentally?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:In full transparency again, I know Brian and I have mentioned this here and there, but I.
Speaker A: out Veritas logistics back in: Speaker A:I won't go into all the details, but we had this idea that we could do something better.
Speaker A:Not the same size, we didn't want to be a multi billion dollar company, but in terms of culture and people and making sure that we're building a company where people felt welcome and valued.
Speaker A:We knew that we could do something better, but that didn't manifest until five years later.
Speaker A:And five years later, you know, we had our different pasts.
Speaker A:We left roughly around the same time.
Speaker A:But those two years after I left, the first week, the honeymoon, where it's like, oh, I'm relieved.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:That lasted a week.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Those two years were probably the darkest years of my entire life.
Speaker A:And I mean that, I mean, it was, it was a struggle.
Speaker A:I mean, I had to go back and I was, you know, visiting doctors, having panic attacks, you know, severe anxiety, depression, you know, hell, you can tell your story too.
Speaker A:But like I was getting offers from companies, sure.
Speaker A:For a fraction of what I was making.
Speaker B:Not even close.
Speaker A:I was going back to entry level.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So now it's like, what am I doing?
Speaker A:Did I make the wrong decision?
Speaker A:And you have the rocks in your life, you know, you being one of them, my wife being another, you know, some of my family that understood, like, oh, he's gonna be fine.
Speaker A:But at the time, it's like I am.
Speaker A:I am in the dumps.
Speaker A:Like I am never making it out of this hole.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Luckily we did.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And I climbed out of that.
Speaker A:But it was a very difficult time.
Speaker A:If I didn't have the support and network around me, I don't know if we'd be in these seats today.
Speaker A:But what are your thoughts?
Speaker A:How'd you handle it?
Speaker A:How'd it go for you?
Speaker B:No, it's a great, man.
Speaker B:I think I've had a lot of hardships in my life.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like rough upbringing.
Speaker B:I think those two years, right.
Speaker B:It was just like an incongruence of I was living kind of like a double life.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Where I was incongruent with who I wanted to be two years from then.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So I think it was like I was going into a different job that, you know, was, was fine and it challenged me on a different level.
Speaker B:But like I knew the end goal and I wasn't doing the day to day tasks to get me to that end goal.
Speaker B:And so it was like.
Speaker B:That's the best way I can describe it was.
Speaker B:It was so mentally challenging, you know, with it being so incongruent with what I really wanted.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Let me, let me back up real quick, Brian.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So you couldn't do the tasks, the small tasks to get you to your goal.
Speaker A:Tell me more about that.
Speaker A:Because, you know, you didn't jump ship to another company.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:But why couldn't you do anything in.
Speaker B:Between the two years from like a non compete perspective?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I mean that's part of the non compete.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Is the.
Speaker B:You can't compete in the industry.
Speaker B:You can't do those other things.
Speaker B:You can't make phone calls to prospective shippers or clients or start an llc.
Speaker B:Or start an llc.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So I mean, I think those are some of the things like, yeah, there's a lot of thought ideation during those times.
Speaker B:There's a lot of, you know, stuff written down on paper, you know, but yeah, I think those are the, those are the things that, you know, you had to grapple with, especially when you know, you know what the future looks like or you know that there's a light at the end of the tunnel.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Was there a turning point for you as you got towards the end of the two years?
Speaker A:Was there a turning point where you kind of found that fire again?
Speaker A:Because from my own experience, I mean, I had, you had to check me at one point.
Speaker A:But you know, there's a level of just like complacency that set in and it took me a minute to snap out of that.
Speaker A:Was there any turning point for you where you're like, oh, let's go.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think it was, you know, it was tough, I will tell you this.
Speaker B:At that other job, it was tough the first 12, 18 months because I was still learning a different industry and I didn't have much success.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And then I started to build up some momentum and some success at the other company and it was like, okay, like, what's, like, how am I going to transition this?
Speaker B:I'm starting to have success at this, you know, two year company, we'll call it that.
Speaker B:And you know, so yeah, I think there wasn't like a definitive turning point for Me.
Speaker B:But there was a time like, okay, like this isn't going to be forever.
Speaker B:I need to go ahead and like transition these accounts or transition these deals to somebody else so I can, you know, you know, get that ball rolling with the logistics company.
Speaker A:So yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:So let me ask you this.
Speaker A:What type of advice would you give someone that is currently in a similar role?
Speaker A:Yeah, they have a non compete, whether it's one year, six months, two years, whatever it may be, what advice would you give them if they are looking to take that leap of faith and pursue their passion?
Speaker B:The first thing, like number one, it's go back to the document you signed.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like just make sure.
Speaker A:It might be important.
Speaker A:It might be pretty important.
Speaker B:Pretty important, right.
Speaker B:So I think the first part is signing the document or whatever you're signing on day one or day two or day 10 or whatever that is.
Speaker B:Get some additional information from an attorney around that.
Speaker B:The second thing, if you're for us, it's taboo to ask, right.
Speaker B:And I know that other people that work at different companies, if you are four or five years in and you ask to see the non compete, I mentioned it earlier, but that's taboo to talk about.
Speaker B:So I would, I would ask an attorney, I would ask somebody in, you know, corporate litigation to see if they fought any type of lawsuits against this company.
Speaker B:What that looks like, that's what I would do is go to those attorneys, see what they think.
Speaker B:You know, they're in this space every single day.
Speaker B:But yeah, that would be it.
Speaker B:Justin, if you're going into this and you know there might be a non compete, what would your plan be?
Speaker A:So if I'm already tied to non compete and I don't feel necessarily comfortable speaking to my direct supervisor for obvious reasons, I may go to HR or find an outside mentor or a professional that can take a look at, you know, my document.
Speaker A:But for me, if this is something I'm set on, I'm going to have a plan.
Speaker A:I'm not, I'm not jumping into the deep end with sharks with no plan, which is what I actually did.
Speaker A:But I actually did go to hr.
Speaker A:I started to set up some interviews.
Speaker A:So my plan, uh, the way I love to do things, I, I love learning the hard way.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Uh, so my purpose with all this is, is to help someone not, you know, have to learn the hard way.
Speaker A:Uh, but I went on some interviews.
Speaker A:I was trying to set up a plan.
Speaker A:At the time I was in Austin, Texas.
Speaker A:I had a kid, a wife, a house, my second child on the way I was trying to move back to Cincinnati.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which is where we are now.
Speaker A:Which is where, you know, our company is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I'll set up interviews to come back to Cincinnati.
Speaker A:Unfortunately, I told them why I took the pto and it's for a job interview.
Speaker A:That was my last day.
Speaker A:So I had a house full and a family to move to Cincinnati with.
Speaker A:Zero plan.
Speaker A:But my point is, have a plan, you know, talk to people, find a mentor, external, internal, it doesn't matter, friend, family, professionals.
Speaker A:Have a plan set in place with actionable items that you can, you can check off.
Speaker A:You know, if the first one's talk to hr, second one is interview, line up a job.
Speaker A:If you're relocating, that's a little bit of a different challenge.
Speaker A:But have a plan going into it.
Speaker A:That way when you do have that conversation and you resign or you get fired like I did.
Speaker A:Yeah, you can, you have a plan.
Speaker A:And there's not as much stress and anxiety that comes with a huge, you know, life change, like a career change.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, it's, it's great information.
Speaker B:I think even, you know, for me in my scenario, I felt like, you know, this was a rude awakening, right.
Speaker B:And it's, it made me, you know, eat some humble pie.
Speaker B:And I think when I quit, right.
Speaker B:Like back in, during that time, I thought I was going to get a million job opportunities.
Speaker B:I'm a high performing salesperson.
Speaker B:I, you know, I've led some teams and I was just going to get, you know, job after a job offer, after job offer, 100k plus 100k plus 150 plus.
Speaker B:Like that did not happen, right?
Speaker B:So like, and you know, like we share pretty much everything but like that did not happen, right?
Speaker B:So I think a lot of it, you know, I love the part about having a plan because I think it's essential, man.
Speaker B:I think you have to have that because if you don't, you'll find yourself in a scenario where, you know, you're getting jobs.
Speaker B:You know, you mentioned this a little bit earlier, but like entry level job opportunities and you're saying, oh shit, what do I do now?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So love it, man.
Speaker B:Love the plan part.
Speaker B:It's, it's crucial.
Speaker B:Another thing to mention on, you know, having that plan is making sure that you're networking.
Speaker B:That's, that's an area that I felt like I didn't do a good enough job of, Right.
Speaker B:I kept my head down in the sand.
Speaker B:I was, you know, getting after it, you know, six, seven years in a row.
Speaker B:I didn't network.
Speaker B:You know, whether, you know, we have a ton of tools today, LinkedIn, Instagram, social media, even within your, you know, your personal network at home, use that, use those networks to look at job opportunities or use that, use those networks to learn more or what other companies are paying or what other companies are doing.
Speaker B:I think that's extremely valuable because if I had to do it again, I probably wouldn't do it that way.
Speaker B:I would make sure that I networked more on LinkedIn, had a job opportunity lined up, or maybe a couple of them before we finally cut ties or took that leap of faith.
Speaker A:You and I both.
Speaker A:No, I appreciate you sharing that.
Speaker A:If you're listening, have any questions, please, dm, Brian or myself, if we have time, we'd be more than happy to get back to you and help you out in any way possible.
Speaker A:At the end of the day, I think most providers view this industry as getting something from point A to point B.
Speaker A:It's a lot more than that.
Speaker A:I think when you, you can do these things that we're discussing consistently and you're putting your clients best interests in the forefront, the rest handles itself.
